KSF members are hypocritical?

[Ninpo]

(sry for my english) Guys, I read the Beetle thread. What Beetle is promoting is another discussion. I was defending free harassment and free provocation back in times. Synki and some other admins (e.g. Skandy) were banning people because they were posting trolls and memes regarding to them, with other words: because they got offended. I was standing up for racists and retards and trolls like spar, and people banned me a half year for doing so. Now they are suddenly acting like they are anti-SJW, when in reality the quite opposite was the case back in times. Explain me please.

[Ninpo]

It suddenly seems like there's a major consensus about not regulating speech other than spamming in the contrast to what was the case when I was defending Spar, mr. gmmbearz, Bocuma etc., when every1 hated me, called me Hitler and perm banned me in the end.

[Stevo_97]

Those weren't the reasons you got perma-banned. It was mainly do to the way in which you went about it. It was destructive and pissed a lot of people off. You tried to force the change and banned people with friends in high places and got banned in return. Change in the case of KSF is a slow process and not something that can get forced, especially when everyone in the server is accustomed to a certain atmosphere that's been developing for so many years since ksf came to be.

I agree with Beetle and the topic, but I also know that even if I attempted to do something I'd only make enemies and end up in a similar position to you. Gotta fight the battles you know you can win. And given that evolv himself said that he doesn't really give a shit in regards to racism, don't expect anything to change either. When hate speech is genuine and not used as a troll or in general talk, I step in regardless of who. With most of the people in ksf who use racist terms i see it more of a shitty habitual use rather than genuine hatred of a race or w/e, which is why I don't bother.

I'm not trying to make myself out to be superior either, I've done my fair share of abusing for whatever the reason and I'm aware of that.

[Ninpo]

Those weren't the reasons you got perma-banned. It was mainly do to the way in which you went about it. It was destructive and pissed a lot of people off. You tried to force the change and banned people with friends in high places and got banned in return. Change in the case of KSF is a slow process and not something that can get forced, especially when everyone in the server is accustomed to a certain atmosphere that's been developing for so many years since ksf came to be.

I agree with Beetle and the topic, but I also know that even if I attempted to do something I'd only make enemies and end up in a similar position to you. Gotta fight the battles you know you can win. And given that evolv himself said that he doesn't really give a shit in regards to racism, don't expect anything to change either. When hate speech is genuine and not used as a troll or in general talk, I step in regardless of who. With most of the people in ksf who use racist terms i see it more of a shitty habitual use rather than genuine hatred of a race or w/e, which is why I don't bother.

I'm not trying to make myself out to be superior either, I've done my fair share of abusing for whatever the reason and I'm aware of that.

(sorry for many edits)
Stevo, I definetly agree that my attitude was too revolutionary. You need at least recognition before you can do changes, and the thing is no one ever liked me that much on KSF, I never speaked with so many, and I was never the social guy. I should have done more negotiating. The only respect I had was relating to my surf, like Synki.

Regarding to hypocricy: But still if look at many of the arguments you were using to shut me down, and the arguments you were using to criticize Beetle, then the arguments turned 180 degrees, Blink is now using the same arguments as I did when he argued against me, I'ts stupid as hell. And this is the very point of the thread to question

But you should know that I was actually handling a lot of admin abuse, and even though if you think I didn't (and yes, it was admittedly proven one time that I
actually unjustly banned Synki, because I didn't how to check hidden messages in the chat and therefor misinterpreted the course of actions)then the amount of "unfavorableness" I might have caused the server and the punishment of this is in no way proportional with all that unfavorableness Synki, Skandy and some other admins have caused AND their related punishment.

And you kicked me from KSF instead of just temporarily removing my ban abilities.

(And when I came back unbanned, the admins went nuts, they abused me and banned me for 24 hours???? When I banned you, we were typically talking small fucking irrelevant 5-20 minutes.)

And no, I was not biased. This is not true, Spar was literally the only one I had on my friendlist. In the situation itself, I added the other victims, who werent my friends, and whom you can ask whether this is true: mr.gmmbearz, bocuma, cyber and Ice (cant find the rest people because i either deleted them on my friendlist or they deleted me).

Maybe they later turned out to be my friends, but It would be biased tho to discriminate these, just because they were my friends, lol. I was always objective.

[wild]

nvm deleting post, not even worth trying to say anything

[Blink]

Regarding to hypocricy: But still if look at many of the arguments you were using to shut me down, and the arguments you were using to criticize Beetle, then the arguments turned 180 degrees, Blink is now using the same arguments as I did when he argued against me, I'ts stupid as hell.

Can you pull up the posts or elaborate on this? I don't think I've ever been against free speech or offended by shit people say so I don't know what you're talking about here.

[THERAPIST]

Using just the one example of gmmbearz the difference is that he was:
- spamming binds and/or global chat commands
- actively annoying a large majority of the server
- not easily avoided because he would intentionally try to start 'troll' conversations with people that he specifically knew had no interest talking to him
- using the fact that you would rule in favor of the people complaining without confirming facts in order to bait admins and then get them banned

and synki:
- had a somewhat offensive name (but nothing that is particularly beyond the pale of what is normal in the server chat or the internet in general - remember that Habitat's chat title was literally hardcoded to FAG for several years)
- was offending very few people because most people on any game really don't care about random generic insults
- is easily avoided because he rarely really talks to people he doesn't know

Most importantly however; don't even try to victimize yourself as if you were banned for the movement you were trying to generate.

You were de-adminned because you would take cases such as gmmbearz one - where admins would make a justified ban (read: one that would be supported by the majority of players online) - and then ban the admin in question for doing their job because you and the player that was banned didn't agree with it. Unlike Beetle's post on the forum which began an open discussion where both sides could be heard and the one supported by the majority could win, you attempted to eliminate the possibility of having a discussion at all in order to force your point of view (which had minimal support to begin with) across.

If writing a set of rules that you share with no one but yourself, and having no discussion with any other leadership at all about what needs to be changed is your idea of a revolution, then power to you. However according to a normal person's point of view (see: the overwhelming majority of people that voted to kick you) you were no revolutionary - just a shitty admin.

After being de-adminned you still did not create any kind of discussion about whether or not your proposed changes would be beneficial to KSF - you instead took to spamming the forums, not responding to counterarguments except to call people hypocrites, indignant in the face of the fact that 90% of the players responding were against your ideas and somehow unable to fathom that KSF would not cater towards the minority at the expense of everyone else. At this point evolv simply took pity on you and decided to put you out of your misery by banning you rather than let you waste any more of your seemingly endless free time on an issue that was quite clearly moving further and further against you.

Frankly I still cannot understand (1) Why you are unbanned to begin with, (2) How you cannot fathom that if you had no support for this argument before you will certainly not have any now, (3) What you are even think you are going to achieve at this point and (4) How little else you must have going on in your life if resurrecting this argument and being ridiculed for it again is what you wish to spend what I assume to be your free time on.

[Kusché]

Didn't get a chance to post this in the last topic, nor did I notice anyone mentioning it, but quote for sacred: "If you compare this to some other stuff people regularily post as binds (e.g. "Don't mind me, just taking my SacReds for a walk *insert swastikas here*") or what other people have as names, which YOU simply don't care about because they are not rank 1 and don't attack you personally, this is not worse or worthier to mention."

Firstly, in defense of beetle, I would like to say that it's different when a player ranked number one has racist/dumb stuff in his name or posts/does childish things and when a random player which doesn't represent the server at all does it, I'm 100% sure I've seen 'nigger179' or what ever it was in a video which was uploaded to youtube, also who always !silences people who he never even talked to - for example I've seen many occasions when he gag'ed a person only because he was from a country he doesn't like, ?! Is that maturity at it's finest?

Further on, from a persons perspective - which one does more harmful publicity , a person whose videos are uploaded for everyone to see and literally is on top in !st , or a person who casually plays the servers to relax/hangout.

All in all, I'd like to suggest to make changes to your member rules, as this is after all the leading surf community and the people that represent the 'clan' should be at least somewhat mature.

synkis not a member so who exactly is bothering you?

[synki]

these ppl are worse than muslims

[Ninpo]

Using just the one example of gmmbearz the difference is that he was:
- spamming binds and/or global chat commands
- actively annoying a large majority of the server
- not easily avoided because he would intentionally try to start 'troll' conversations with people that he specifically knew had no interest talking to him
- using the fact that you would rule in favor of the people complaining without confirming facts in order to bait admins and then get them banned

Yes, he has been spamming, but the specific cases I took care of (except the case where spammed in hidden chats), this wasn't the issue. And yes, often he was trolling, but there were examples of admins themselves initiating the conflicts intentionally to ban mr.gmmbearz.
Apparently you only deffend troll when it's exerted against an arbitrarily limited number of people, that's not a consistent view, btw, you have to relate to the specific cases, the cases I was witness to, mr.gmbearzz was mostly in conflict with one admin, sometimes 2, so I can't really regonize your postulates about annoying the majority of server.
I was not ruling in favor of the people complaining, because I was checking the chat logs. So no.

and synki:
- had a somewhat offensive name (but nothing that is particularly beyond the pale of what is normal in the server chat or the internet in general - remember that Habitat's chat title was literally hardcoded to FAG for several years)
- was offending very few people because most people on any game really don't care about random generic insults
- is easily avoided because he rarely really talks to people he doesn't know

It's funny how you justify Synki's behavior by beutifying the language: "generic insults". And suddenly people really dont care about players behave annoying against them in contrast to what was the case with mr.gm.bearzz. Mr.gmmbearz wasnt even insulting any1.
The amount of people he's offending is not relevant, and as I said there were cases where mr.gmmbearz only had a conflict with 1 admin whilst he got banned.
So again: the hypocrisy is strong.

Most importantly however; don't even try to victimize yourself as if you were banned for the movement you were trying to generate.

You were de-adminned because you would take cases such as gmmbearz one - where admins would make a justified ban (read: one that would be supported by the majority of players online) - and then ban the admin in question for doing their job because you and the player that was banned didn't agree with it. Unlike Beetle's post on the forum which began an open discussion where both sides could be heard and the one supported by the majority could win, you attempted to eliminate the possibility of having a discussion at all in order to force your point of view (which had minimal support to begin with) across.

If writing a set of rules that you share with no one but yourself, and having no discussion with any other leadership at all about what needs to be changed is your idea of a revolution, then power to you. However according to a normal person's point of view (see: the overwhelming majority of people that voted to kick you) you were no revolutionary - just a shitty admin.

You have a perverted moral. The majority isnt an excuse to justify actions. A gang muslims could justify to rape a girl with same logic.
The rules are. The fact is we a have a certain rule set on our server, if admins have the right to make arbitrary rules outside the rule set, then there is no point of a certain rule set. Therefor admins cant have rights to make arbitrary rules outside the rule set, because that would contradict the idea about making a certain rule sets. If you have dont have a right to x, it implies a consequence if you claim x, because rights are always enforced. It's pure logics.

BUT I ADMIT, as you criticize me for. They way I determined the consequences, was completly singlehandedly carried out by myself. This is not good morals, I agree.

It's not necessarily cool to be revolutionary, so I'm fine with that, lol.

After being de-adminned you still did not create any kind of discussion about whether or not your proposed changes would be beneficial to KSF - you instead took to spamming the forums, not responding to counterarguments except to call people hypocrites, indignant in the face of the fact that 90% of the players responding were against your ideas and somehow unable to fathom that KSF would not cater towards the minority at the expense of everyone else. At this point evolv simply took pity on you and decided to put you out of your misery by banning you rather than let you waste any more of your seemingly endless free time on an issue that was quite clearly moving further and further against you.

Frankly I still cannot understand (1) Why you are unbanned to begin with, (2) How you cannot fathom that if you had no support for this argument before you will certainly not have any now, (3) What you are even think you are going to achieve at this point and (4) How little else you must have going on in your life if resurrecting this argument and being ridiculed for it again is what you wish to spend what I assume to be your free time on.

That's not true at all, I'm not against dialogue. I have in this thread already admitted my faults, none of you ever admitted your faults. My point is to display the hypocrisy of some KSF members, which you, yourself Rapist, already done singlehandedly regarding to Synki.

And sorry Blink, I will find the examples soon in night.