Working on a new map

[horsefeathers]

Hello,
I've been working on a new map for the past few weeks; its a staged tier 4. There are 6 stages and I have completed 3 of them. I took inspiration from surf_polygon and from the idea of how much you really need to see in order to surf. The visual style is minimal with the idea being to show just enough to get the job done. I did add pieces of detail but they all serve a purpose. The name that I have come to is surf_antimatter to tie into the high contrast in the design.
As I said the first 3 stages are done, but there are no teleport triggers so you have to use noclip, here is a download: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17419604/surf_antimatter_alpha_S1-3.bsp
Here is a sample of a stage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDxJIlJwKtM

Tell me what you think, if there are any improvements I could make or if you have any comments, don't hesitate to post.

[Spari]

seems like a cool map but it's way too dark

[Juxtapo]

Hello,
I took inspiration from surf_polygon and from the idea of how much you really need to see in order to surf. The visual style is minimal with the idea being to show just enough to get the job done. I did add pieces of detail but they all serve a purpose. .

pls dont use fullbright textures. Polygon is lit properly and it makes a massive difference from if it was just bright white/blue textures. Not only does it give the player a headache, but it makes it harder to judge flicks/angles/speed/etc. meaning it'll be a "1 n done" kinda map for most people. If you're set on the minimalist theme, try using grey dev textures with colourful lighting, or a mix of coloured dev textures. It's very easy and fast to make an acceptable looking, fully lit map out of dev textures. That being said, the surf in the video looks very very fun and I can't wait to play it.

[Krazy]

I think this map is great both with the visuals and the surf. I somewhat like the idea of monocolor surf done right (and it has been done right, it's easy to tell where a ramp ends and where obstacles are). However, I'm going to have to agree with Jux, the aesthetics would be a lot better if proper textures were used. I'm not saying black/white fullbright is a bad thing, but I'm saying that there are ways to improve how it looks. Otherwise, the map looks alright and the surf is fantastic. Cannot wait to see where this goes.

[Sacred]

I absolutely hate that kind of design (I remember a similar bonus, or pavilion s5?) - can't judge distances properly, eyes start bleeding... the usual shit. But that's happening on polygon for me as well.

[mbsurfer]

I personally cannot stand textures like this. It's just laziness it seems like. I'd almost rather prefer grey/orange dev textures like Jux recommended. Unfortunately, I'm aware that lighting is usually the last and most annoying part of mapping, but don't let the outcome of your map be ruined by this lazy way of texturing/lighting.

[horsefeathers]

The visual design was an experiment to highlight what i think the the most important part in surf map design: contrast. My goal was to provide enough visual indication of the boundaries of rooms and the edges of ramps. If I haven't accomplished that then the style is moot. I can definitely see how people would be put off by the style. Call me crazy but I like the style. With this feedback though, I will pull back and find something that works for the map. I want to stick with the minimal visuals, but I will tone down the contrast and go more in the direction of the flat shaded look that polygon has. Thanks for all the input!

[Sacred]

Polygon isn't the best example, although it's clearly better than black/white neon stuff. Can't judge distances on polygon either and it starts hurting your eyes after a while, too. Maybe just try something less bright (especially no neon colors).

[horsefeathers]

Here's a sample of what I've been working on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGFx5eyf7q8
I nixed the two-tone style and went with a flat textured look like what polygon has. I also learned how to use texture light which allows for some nice effects. Tell me what you think.

[Maltsns]

That looks way better imo. Also the grey color scheme your using makes the flat texture theme looks good.

[Juxtapo]

Wow that looks amazing. The brushwork looks great and the surf looks like it flows really nicely. I know you want to do the "only necessary details" monochrome theme, but I would consider adding a bit of colour to the ramps. It'd make it a little bit more interesting to look at and it's always good to have your surf ramps stand out from the rest of the map.

PS: Add me on steam! I wanna stay up to date on your mapping and help get your stuff released and on KSF ASAP!
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Juxtapo/

[Krazy]

It's looking amazing. Look forward to seeing where this map goes.

[Sacred]

This looks 10000x better than before.

[mbsurfer]

Much much much much better. Looks great!

[horsefeathers]

Hello, I have been working on the map over the past few days, and I have done stages 1-5 with textures and lights. I will eventually do another pass over all the levels to fix any weirdness with the lighting and stuff, but I've gotten pretty far. I had to redesign parts of 4 and 5 so those took longer than normal. The last stage shouldn't need any big changes. So I need to finish 6 and build a spawn area, then I need to add trigger and fix little things, and then I can release.

I haven't thought about a bonus and I might add one if I'm up to it after I finish the bulk of the work. I have a version without trigger of 1 through 5 if anyone wants to check it out; I packed the textures into it so it should work (if it doesnt please tell me): https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17419604/surf_antimatter_v3.bsp

Tell me what you think; if there is anything that you think should be changed or improved on, let me know. Here are some pictures:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17419604/2014-11-16_00002.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17419604/2014-11-16_00005.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17419604/2014-11-17_00001.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17419604/2014-11-16_00006.jpg

[Krazy]

This is very, very impressive. The surf is amazing and the visuals are stunning.

[streebree]

this map is looking really good. I have one request though. on that ramp in the fourth picture, i often clip the bottom of it, trying to leave it. can you remake that ramp using this method:
http://source.gamebanana.com/tuts/10863
It'll make it so much smoother, and without the little bumps on the bottom that ruin runs.

[horsefeathers]

Thank you for the link, I have rebuilt the ramp in question using that method and tested it; it seems to work now. Here is an updated version of the beta including the last stage and that start area: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17419604/surf_antimatter_v3_update.bsp

Try it out and let me know if there are any more ramp glitches.

[Sacred]

Triggers not working?

[horsefeathers]

triggers not in yet

[streebree]

Ah thank you so much. silky smooth now.

[Sacred]

Add triggers, it's damn annoying to test without.

[horsefeathers]

Hello all, here is a prerelease version with triggers and links between stages: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17419604/surf_antimatter_prerelease.bsp

Im pretty much done now, I'm just going to wait a couple days and make sure everything is working correctly. The map will probably remain the same from now until I put it on gamebanana, but I just want to be sure. I never ended up working on a bonus since I am out of ideas after working on this for about a month solid. Lastly, I dont know exactly what trigger are required for the surf timer; do I need start and end triggers for each plus map_start/end, or just the stages.

Thank you everyone for your support and guidance. It was super fun to make this map.

[remkoe]

i actually really enjoyed that, good job

[streebree]

pretty sweet map. everything looks good to me.

[Krazy]

Stage 6 is simply amazing. All of the other stages are, too, but 6 is my favorite out of all of them.

Surf: 9/10

The surf ramps are done well and placed in the right areas to ensure that it flows and that it's fun.

Aesthetic: 7/10

For a map with absolutely no coloration in it, this looks amazing. The shades of the different textures and the lighting really make this work. This doesn't look as good as surf_polygon, but it is visually appealing for similar reasons.

Flow: 8/10

The surf in this map is amazing. It's fun, it's fast-paced and it flows really well. Apart from a few awkward flicks, this map has perfect surf. Also, this map has gained all of my respect for having a climatic ending.

Fun: 10/10

This map was really fun, it had a wide variety of obstacles and required quite a bit of timing and precision. Stage 6 was one of the most fun stages I've ever played.

Overall: 8.5/10

Fantastic map, I look forward to seeing what other projects you make in the future.

[Juxtapo]

Lastly, I dont know exactly what trigger are required for the surf timer; do I need start and end triggers for each plus map_start/end, or just the stages.

You need a trigger_multiple on each start platform and one at the end platform of the final stage.

Very fun btw! I really liked s4 and the rest were all quite enjoyable. Only real thing I'd change is making s1 a bit easier (I don't think noobs will be able to get to the third ramp)

[Sacred]

You don't have to add any start/endzones to your map is they are in a rectangular shape. Only if your startzone is odd like a triangle then it'd be great if you make a trigger in the same shape.

Btw this looks better than polygon.

[Stevo_97]

Awesome map, the surf is EXTREMELY fun. 10/10

[horsefeathers]

You need a trigger_multiple on each start platform and one at the end platform of the final stage.


You don't have to add any start/endzones to your map is they are in a rectangular shape. Only if your startzone is odd like a triangle then it'd be great if you make a trigger in the same shape.

Thanks for the info. I added the triggers anyway as it was pretty simple.

[horsefeathers]

I glad you guys are enjoying it! I always try to start with something fun to surf and then work from there.

[horsefeathers]

Hey everyone, I am satisfied with the state of the map and have released it to gamebanana: http://css.gamebanana.com/maps/183698

Some changes I made since the last time: I re-ordered the stages slightly; I switched 3 and 4 because I felt that 3 was harder than 4 and I wanted to split up 4 and 5 since they have similar styled end areas. Along with that, I fixed some lighting bugs and weirdness and did an optimization pass.

I had fun making this map and I will do it again in the future; but right now I am out of ideas and need to recharge. Thanks to everyone who helped me make this map.

[THERAPIST]

surf is awesome but theme sucks and that makes the map suck

also idk if i played this on shit settings but that was much harder than t4

BTW WHATS SONG IN VID

[horsefeathers]

Thanks for the comment. The song in the vid was Clams Casino - Motivation. I don't think its harder than t4; there are t4 maps I cant beat yet so it cant be higher right (perfect logic). The maps I was inspired by where also t4, so I wanted this map to have the same perception. The only setting I used to test it was sv_airaccelerate 150, which the maps sets when it loads.

It sucks that you think the theme sucks; what exactly do you think sucks about it? If nothing else, I hope you still can have fun on the map.

[truktruk]

I don't like the theme because it messes with depth perception. Though if that's what you're going for it works! I can't really comment on the map quality since I only played the first stage, but it seems pretty good.

[THERAPIST]

yeah theres no depth perception and the fact that its literally all white means that theres like no visual cues and the stages are so long, i pretty much forget the exact route for the stages as i finished them

there are some maps i can go back to after years of not playing them and recall perfectly, id probably forget the stages on this one within a week, so there'd be 0 chance of me ever playing it again after the first time i beat it, even if i did like it

also on like stage 3? where you land on a ramp and surf under a wall to next ramp theres a gray strip on the bottom of the ramp which is obviously the same color as the floor so you don't even realise how low you can surf on the ramp which makes that part unnecessarily annoying just because of the shit theme.

has anyone else actually finished this map? it felt like a ridiculously hard t5, not even close to t4 but idk if my settings were wrong because if i surfed some stuff like you did in the video im 100% sure i wouldnt have even made it.

[truktruk]

but idk if my settings were wrong because if i surfed some stuff like you did in the video im 100% sure i wouldnt have even made it.

To make sure your settings are good in the future you can simply join a surf server then open console and type "create surf_[mapname]" while your still in the server.

[antihack]

I agree with therapist. You did say that you were inspired by polygon so it makes sense that this map suffers from exactly the same problem as that map does. Surfers usually instinctively look at the ramps' texture to gather information about their current speed and position. If the ramps are all uniform grey it is very difficult to obtain that information. I think a good deal of the map's difficulty came from the fact that I had to guess a little bit as to where I was landing on any ramp, and that's really not good; difficulty should come from the stage design rather than a flaw in the design. It's a shame since the levels seemed like they would have been very fun to surf otherwise.

You wondered how much you really need to see in order to surf in your original post. Well, I think you need more than this.